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snooka
Yellowfin



Australia
190 Posts

Member No: #6304

Posted - 05 May 2005 :  4:28:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit snooka's Homepage Send snooka a Private Message
g,day all , just needed to complain about the banning of pitbulls .
i see this as another knee jerk totally emotional piece of crap. any medium to large dog can cause seriuos damage and or death and if they ban all big dogs then there will be alot of law breakers and no work dogs or guard dogs or hang on blind dogs , sniffer dogs rescue dogs the list is endless.
last time i looked this was still Australia not some communist or fascist police state stuff you bob

Whitto
Rip Van Whitto


Australia
1544 Posts

Member No: #279

Posted - 05 May 2005 :  5:20:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Whitto's Homepage Send Whitto a Private Message

That's right, ban a dog that may hurt a human ...

but we MUST protect the Great White Shark ... go figure

Whitto


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Neil
SportsFish


Australia
3823 Posts

Member No: #1

Posted - 05 May 2005 :  5:34:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Neil's Homepage Send Neil a Private Message
Snooka,

Sorry Snooka but having had first hand and devastating experience of these mogul dogs frankly it is about time.

Most attacks have resulted because of the absolute disregard of the dogs control and management.

Clearly the restrictions and requirements for the keeping of these dogs has been ignored on the whole so the next step has been taken.

Far too many kids have suffered because of the actions on irresponsible owners of these animals.

Oh and my wife and I have bred dogs for the last 20 odd years and I am a ANKC dog judge so my comments arn't anti-dog..


The Below is an extract from the Companion Animal Act 1998 Sect 55:


55 Restricted Breeds

The following dogs are restricted dogs for the purposes of this Act:

(a) pit bull terriers,

(b) American pit bull terriers,

(c) Japanese tosas, (Tosa Inu)

(d) Argentinian fighting dogs (dogo Argentino),

(e) Brazilian fighting dogs (fila Brasileiro),

(f) any other dog of a breed, kind or description prescribed by the regulations as restricted for the purposes of this Division. Note. For example, dogs used as guard dogs by security personnel could be prescribed as restricted dogs.

56 Owner of restricted dog must comply with control requirements

(1) The owner of a restricted dog must ensure that the following requirements are complied with:

(a) While the dog is on property on which the dog is ordinarily kept, the dog must be kept in a child-proof enclosure.

(b) The dog must not at any time be in the sole charge of a person under the age of 18 years.

(c) One or more signs must be displayed on that property showing the words "Warning Dangerous Dog" in letters clearly visible from the boundaries of the property on which the dog is ordinarily kept or, if the regulations provide for the signs required by this paragraph, complying with the regulations.

(d) When the dog is away from the property where it is ordinarily kept the dog must, despite any other provision of this Act, be under the effective control of some competent person by means of an adequate chain, cord or leash and have a muzzle securely fixed on its mouth in such a manner as will prevent it from biting any person or animal. This paragraph does not apply when paragraph (e) applies.

(e) If the dog is taken by or on behalf of the owner to any property on which the dog is to be kept temporarily (for example, the premises of a veterinary surgeon or a boarding kennel), the owner must ensure that while the dog is on that property:

(i) the dog is under the effective control of some competent person by means of an adequate chain, cord or leash, or

(ii) the dog is otherwise under effective control so as to prevent it from attacking any person or animal and one or more signs are displayed on that property as provided by paragraph (c).

(f) The dog must not be sold to a person under the age of 18 years.

(g) The owner must notify the council of the area in which the dog is ordinarily kept of the following matters within the time specified in relation to each of those matters:

(i) that the dog (with or without provocation) has attacked or injured a person or animal (other than vermin) notice to be given within 24 hours after the attack or injury,

(ii) that the dog cannot be found notice to be given within 24 hours after the dog's absence is first noticed,

(iii) that the dog has died notice to be given as soon as practicable after the death,

(iv) that the ownership of the dog has changed notice to be given within 24 hours after the change of ownership,

(v) that the dog is no longer being ordinarily kept in the area of the council notice to be given as soon as practicable after the change of location,

(vi) that the dog is being ordinarily kept at a different location in the area of the council notice to be given as soon as practicable after the change of location.

(2) An owner of a dog who does not comply with any of the require
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NIZ
Mackeral


Australia
51 Posts

Member No: #7424

Posted - 05 May 2005 :  11:33:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit NIZ's Homepage Send NIZ a Private Message
What do the statistics say is the breed that has caused the most dog bites/attacks here in Australia? I bet you it ain't the pit-bull!! Now I'm sorry Neil but any dog can be turned into a man-eater. I agree tighter controls need to be in place for ownership of these dogs but to try and wipe them off the face of the earth is WRONG!!!

Whats next, are they going to ban the Staffordshire Bull Terrier's and Am Staff's??? Hell while your at it you might aswell get rid of Rotties, German Shepards, Bull Terriers, Cattle Dogs etc etc as they sure as hell can snap when mistreated and provoked.

NIZ

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snooka
Yellowfin



Australia
190 Posts

Member No: #6304

Posted - 06 May 2005 :  09:19:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit snooka's Homepage Send snooka a Private Message
g'day all thanks for your comments , i think part of the problem is that you can't bann the idiots who abuse these dogs and yes i do agree that they are dangerous but if the same idiotrs don;t have pittbulls and the like then they will just use other dogs that is create their own mongrel breeds or use other breeds the problem still remains all the best tim

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kikila
Marlin



Australia
718 Posts

Member No: #4474

Posted - 10 May 2005 :  5:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit kikila's Homepage Send kikila a Private Message
I think that you will find that there are a site more vicious owners than vicious dogs. Any dog given the right circumstance will bite. If a person particularly a child run up to a dog and try to give it a hug or pull its tail a dog may bite but remembering that pit bulls are bred to fight and extra care needs to be taken like having the dog muzzled when strangers are about or little kids’ even your own. On Harry’s practice the TV show they had a segment on which dog had the most reported attacks on people and the Maltese terrier come out as the dog with reported attacks.

Unforeseen occurrence befalls us all-ecclesiastes 9:11 is Gods way of saying shit happens

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Neil
SportsFish


Australia
3823 Posts

Member No: #1

Posted - 10 May 2005 :  9:12:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Neil's Homepage Send Neil a Private Message
Rather be bit by a Malt than a Pit any day of the week.

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NIZ
Mackeral


Australia
51 Posts

Member No: #7424

Posted - 12 May 2005 :  8:35:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit NIZ's Homepage Send NIZ a Private Message
quote:
remembering that pit bulls are bred to fight and extra care needs to be taken


Back when dog fighting was legal it was common practise to put down any dog that attacked the handlers. Pit Bulls are very human friendly and will not naturally be aggressive towards humans. Many people confuse aggressivness towards other dogs with aggressivness towards humans. Dogs can and do discriminate, even if irate neighbors cannot.

Pit Bulls are also very tolerant of pain and a child pulling at his ears or tail should not bother him in the slightest, compared to a normal dog they can tolerate a hell of alot more than your average dog.

Lets not forget that these dogs where once praised for their loyalty, agility & strength. The APBT was once considered to be a wonderful family pet by the general public. During World War I, an APBT was used to represent the United States on a propaganda poster.

have a read of the history of the breed and I garuntee you will be surprised.

[/url]http://www.pitbull.org.au/index.html[/url]
[/url]http://www.workingpitbull.com/[/url]
[/url]http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqfaq.html#faq[/url]





Edited by - NIZ on 12 May 2005 8:40:15 PM
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Wise One
Yellowfin



140 Posts

Member No: #2022

Posted - 17 May 2005 :  1:26:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Wise One's Homepage Send Wise One a Private Message
Unfortunately, a minority of "owners" of these dogs see the dog as an extension of their masculinity. They own the dog for all the wrong reasons and love the idea that the dog is aggressive (fit's in with their "macho" image). Given this attitude, it is small wonder that the dogs are not well trained and handled. Whilst it's harsh banning the dog when its the "owners" fault, obviously the owners are responsible and this is the only way to prevent further attacks by a bread, that if not responsibly handled, has the propemsity to be aggresive. After all that was what they were originally bred for....
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snooka
Yellowfin



Australia
190 Posts

Member No: #6304

Posted - 19 May 2005 :  09:31:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit snooka's Homepage Send snooka a Private Message
g'day all , banning anything does not work . i believe that this is nothing more than political point scoring to make all the cotton woolers feel safer . look at the history of a lot dog breeds and you will find that alot were bred for agression . wether we like it or not the world we live in is dangerous and you can't ban everything
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holymac
stickleback


Australia
2777 Posts

Member No: #4463

Posted - 26 May 2005 :  4:42:51 PM  Show Profile  Send holymac an ICQ Message Send holymac a Private Message
sorry niel. the most dog attacks in aus are blue heelers /dobermans/shepards/and jack russells. oh wait i'm sorry that jack thing is only in my house and to me


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xceler8shun
Pilchard


Australia
5 Posts

Member No: #8461

Posted - 31 May 2005 :  11:19:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit xceler8shun's Homepage Send xceler8shun a Private Message
Neil get your head out of the clouds.

I sure hope you don’t publicly speak on behalf of the ANKC.

quote:
Originally posted by Neil

Sorry Snooka but having had first hand and devastating experience of these mogul dogs frankly it is about time.


The APBT is a purebred dog not a mongrel, please explain this first hand and devastating experience that you claim to have been a part of.

quote:
Originally posted by Neil

Most attacks have resulted because of the absolute disregard of the dogs control and management.


This can relate to any dog, not just the APBT.

quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Clearly the restrictions and requirements for the keeping of these dogs has been ignored on the whole so the next step has been taken.


That’s a pretty generalising statement, its a bit like because Ben Johnson took steroids and drugs, that all sprinters take steroids and drugs. You have no way to prove that statement and back it up.

quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Far too many kids have suffered because of the actions on irresponsible owners of these animals.


Yes, dog attacks on kids are terrible, but they are not caused by one breed only. They can be from any breed and owner, even responsible dog owners pets can attack if provoked. How about you check out the Department of Local Government website for the dog attack statistics. In most years you will see that the APBT wont be anywhere near the top, and considering about 5 breeds make up the statistics for "pitbull" then the actually attack rate for the APBT gets even lower.

quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Oh and my wife and I have bred dogs for the last 20 odd years and I am a ANKC dog judge so my comments arn't anti-dog..


No, but being an ANKC judge your comments go against their policy.

Breeding Restrictions
The Australian National Kennel Council and its Member Bodies share the publicís concern about overpopulation of dogs. We strongly support measures to educate people who breed pets, about responsible breeding practices, and also the potential pet-buying public about the responsibilities of pet ownership.

We endorse strong enforcement of the laws governing commercial breeders and traffickers in dogs and, where necessary, the strengthening of the laws themselves.

We strongly oppose blanket prohibition on breeding and mandatory spaying/neutering which takes away the rights of breeders and owners who take and fulfil their responsibilities in a serious manner.

Dangerous Dogs Control Legislation
The Australian National Kennel Council and its Member Bodies support legislation which seeks to establish objective and clear criteria for determining whether a dog, irrespective of its breed, is dangerous. We also support action for controlling dogs which are proven to be dangerous according to that criteria. We will not support legislation which determines the "dangerousness" of a dog on the basis of breed alone.


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loz
Yellowfin



Australia
181 Posts

Member No: #2486

Posted - 05 Jun 2005 :  9:12:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit loz's Homepage Send loz a Private Message
THREE PIT BULLS ATTACKS IN THE PAPER SINCE 31ST MAY!!. IT MAKES ME WONDER HAVE YOU HEARD OF A KILLER COCKER SPANIEL?? 1 OF 3 A 14-year-old boy needed hospital treatment after he was attacked by his girlfriend's pit bull dog near Richmond, west of Sydney.

Police said the teenager was visiting his girlfriend at her Grose Vale Road home about 1.30pm (AEST) on Saturday when he was attacked by the dog.

Police said the dog turned on the boy after he patted it, biting him on his upper lip.

He was taken to Nepean Hospital and received several stitches.

OUT OF THE BLUE
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xceler8shun
Pilchard


Australia
5 Posts

Member No: #8461

Posted - 08 Jun 2005 :  11:35:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit xceler8shun's Homepage Send xceler8shun a Private Message

quote:
Originally posted by loz

THREE PIT BULLS ATTACKS IN THE PAPER SINCE 31ST MAY!


Can you provide references or links for these 3 attacks apparently reported or what papers they were in?

quote:
Originally posted by loz
IT MAKES ME WONDER HAVE YOU HEARD OF A KILLER COCKER SPANIEL?


Honestly I haven’t, but just because the media don’t report them do not mean that they don’t happen.
The headline of “Cocker Spaniel Kills” will not cause the sensation to the extent of “Pit Bull Kills”.

Why, because “Cocker Spaniel Kills” would upset viewers and readers that their good old faithful family pet can be a killer, and that’s not good business practice.

Now have you heard of a killer Pomeranian? Would you think that they could kill someone?

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/

It does not matter what type of dog it is, any dog can attack and kill. It is the dog’s upbringing that will determine if it is aggressive, and that is the responsibility if the owners to provide the proper training and socialisation for their dogs.

Of course there is going to be news of “Pit Bull” attacks in media, it sells papers and is a ratings bonanza due to sensationalism and hype.

Dog attacks occur everyday from a wide variety of dog breeds, yet it is usually only the stories of “Pit Bulls” that you hear. Why? Because it sells and the politicians can make political gain off peoples emotions.

The actual term "Pit bull" is a bit of a misnomer. There really is no such breed. Generally, "pit bulls" are a cross between a "bulldog" breed and a terrier. They are also known as American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

Most "pit bulls" are not aggressive by nature. They tend to be gentle, playful and loving. However, there are those that have been bred and trained to be aggressive. Even then, they are more aggressive toward other animals, not people. Again the statistics on the NSW Dept of Local Government website support this.

Often, aggressive "pit bulls" have been abused and/or neglected.

---

Before you comment and condemn the American Pit Bull Terrier or the "Pit Bull / Bull Terrier" types of dogs, do a little research on the statistics and ask yourself;

Do we really know if it was a "Pit Bull / Bull Terrier” type of dog?
Do we really know if it was provoked into attacking?
Did the dog feel threatened?

The American Pit Bull Terrier has not caused a single death in Australia. I'm not saying that they haven't killed people elsewhere, but so have many other dogs.

Check out the American Temperament Test Society Breed Statistics
http://www.atts.org/statistics.html

American Pit Bull Terrier
Tested: 469
Passed: 391
Failed: 78
Percent Passed: 83.4%

Cocker Spaniel
Tested: 216
Passed: 176
Failed: 40
Percent Passed: 81.5%

Just by those statistics alone the Cocker Spaniel is more likely to bite then an American Pit Bull Terrier.

---

Look at the NSW Department of Local Government statistics and check the stats for yourself.
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/documents/Information/Compare.pdf

Check the following facts.
“Breed more like to attack people”. The Bull Terriers type of dog does not get a mention once.

“Most common breed rating to attack”. The Bull Terrier type again rates in at 5 and 6 on the list, pretty far from being number 1 to attack people.

“Most common cross breeds to attack”. 3 out of the 4 years “Cattle Dogs” were in front of Bull Terrier types. Cross breeds are wide open to misidentification.

“Most common breed to attack other animals”. 3 out of the 4 years “Bull Terrier” types of dogs were on the top of the list. Most people who actually know about the “Bull Terrier / Pit Bull” types of dog would know the history behind this statistic. In short, years and years ago, the dogs USED TO and I stressed USED TO be bred to hunt and fight as wel
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chewie
Marlin



Australia
579 Posts

Member No: #5947

Posted - 08 Jun 2005 :  12:16:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit chewie's Homepage Send chewie a Private Message
Pitt Bulls banned hey - good riddens to sh#t.
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xceler8shun
Pilchard


Australia
5 Posts

Member No: #8461

Posted - 08 Jun 2005 :  1:15:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit xceler8shun's Homepage Send xceler8shun a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chewie

Pitt Bulls banned hey - good riddens to sh#t.


Spoken by someone who would have no idea about what they are talking about. Another person believing what the media tells them to believe.

Wake up chewie.

A ban on "Pit Bulls" will never work.

When the Government comes for your dog, if you have one, you will be singing a different tune. Besause BSL wont stop at "Pit Bull" types of dog. Rotties, German Shepherds, Dobermans, basically any large breed of dog will be added.

I urge you to check the Endangered Dog Breeds Association website
www.edba.org.au and read their forum. It may just change your opinon.

The EDBA fights for all breeds of dog

"They came for the pitbulls and I didn't speak up as I did not own one.
They came for the GSDs, the BTs and Rotties, and still I did not speak up, as I did not own one.
When they came for the dogs over 20 cms high I was worried but I didn't speak up, as my dog was just under.
Then they came for my dog and there was nobody left to speak for ME..." (Except for the EDBA)

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