Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ    
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Bass Boats, Kayaks, Canoes & Fishing Equipment
 Fishing Tackle
 Baitcasters: bearings & keeping good free spool
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Goodoo
Ausbass Member

Australia
660 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2012 :  13:23:45  Show Profile Send Goodoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Over the last few years I seem to be fighting a losing battle on this front, to the point where it's almost put me off using baitcasters.

I always seem to be struggling to maintain good free spool in my baitcasters, which is odd as I keep them fairly clean and maintained (though they do sometimes cop some freshwater exposure in the kayak).

So often I find myself in the situation on a trip where my bloody free-spool is slowly declining, and my casting distance also declining, until by the end of the day it's ridiculous.

Then it's time to pull the casting bearings out and clean them and lubricate them yet again!

Contributing factors may be that I have dabbled with with two consecutive sets of fancy after-market ceramic bearings for my evergreen old Chronarchs (I now pretty much wish I hadn't) and that the fancier bearing oil I was using for a while didn't last long (not that I knew this at the time) and needed regular re-applying (far, far more regularly than you would think) ... and that by failing to do so, wore/wrecked the first set of fancy bearings. But now I'm on the second set of bearings, lubricating regularly with standard Shimano Bantam oil, and STILL putting up with this ****. I'm sure baitcaster use and maintenance isn't meant to be this hard!!!

A search on internet land shows there are many, many opinions out there on how to tackle all this (e.g. cleaning with carburretor cleaner, brake cleaner, acetone, ultrasonic cleaners (which I am thinking about), etc. etc.)

So tell me, how do you clean your baitcaster's spool bearings, what lubricant do you use, and are you happy with the results?

(NB I have put this post up on, ahem, another site, as I'm keen to see what Aussie fishos are doing generally, but I'm particularly interested in asking the wise old hands on AusBass this question. Not least because I know some folk on here have persisted with throwing light lures for bass on high-tech, super-free running baitcasters.

RonR
Ausbass Member

891 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2012 :  16:23:00  Show Profile Send RonR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simon,

No disrepect - but your problem could be a case of later-technology overkill in terms of after-market bearings. Some of the new 'high-tech' bearings have smaller clearances resulting in increased spool drag & inertia.

I've got SF100 and 100A Chronarchs that are completely standard apart from Carbontex drag washers. I use a garden-variety, low-viscosity general-purpose automotive oil (2-3 drops) on the bearings and spool inertia is low enough for acceptable-length casts.
On these reels, standard spool bearings should work well.

Cheers,
Ron
Go to Top of Page

Goodoo
Ausbass Member

660 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2012 :  17:45:01  Show Profile Send Goodoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's OK Ron, appreciate the response. I will just say that these bearings came from a highly reputable Aust. reel tuning business, so one would expect they are fit for the purpose... But yes, I do regret changing the bearings. I wish I'd just stayed with the standard bearings.

I guess I can always order the standard bearings again through Shimano, and I probably will soon.

My interest in what techniques people are using for cleaning bearings, and what products they are lubing them with still stand though, whatever type of bearing is being used.
Go to Top of Page

poly
Ausbass Member

514 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2012 :  18:09:24  Show Profile Send poly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'v had my Alphas for 4 years now I lubricate my bearings with the oil that came with the reel do this 3 to 5 times a season, I strip it down once a year and grease and oil where neccasary, I dont clean with any cleaners just lint free rag and timber tooth pick to get any harden grease or debris out.
I use my reel at least once a week but very rarely in salt water.

This does'nt help you much but I guess gives you an idear what others do.
Go to Top of Page

RonR
Ausbass Member

891 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2012 :  11:06:42  Show Profile Send RonR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simon,

An alternative to sourcing ex Shimano is NSW Bearing Supplies at 1/48 Hoskins Street, Mitchell, ACT (6255 5422). They are a distributor of Miniature Bearings Australia Pty Ltd and may be able to supply stainless steel bearings that are shielded (enclosed) on both sides. The current state-of-the-art is apparently ABEC 5 or ABEC 7 ceramic hybrid bearings. But- as I said, I use standard bearings.

If you want to clean bearings although there are special solvents such as carburettor cleaners IMHO unleaded petrol is as good as any. Whatever you use, bearings should be spun with the cleaning liquid and dried with compressed air before re-oiling.

Ron
Go to Top of Page

Strewth
Ausbass Member

52 Posts

Posted - 23/04/2012 :  08:48:32  Show Profile Send Strewth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unless you are casting really light lures (<7g) with a baitcaster, I have found that there is little real benefit in using ABEC7 bearings such as Boca Orange seals. They give about 10% extra distance at most, are noisy, and require lighter and more frequent lubing because the tolerances are tight. The black A-RB Shimano spool bearings (BNT3812) are great for Curados, Chronarchs and Calais'. They are very resistant to corrosion and last a long time. Daiwa have similar bearings but call them CRRBs. Most of the standard spool bearings in Japanese reels are JIS-4, which translates to something between ABEC3 and ABEC5.

To clean bearings, I made a brass rod to fit in a Dremel tool with an ID of 3 mm and a nut to hold on the bearing. I spin them in a small jar of Acetone for a few mins at high revs and then dry with a hair dryer. Always check that the bearing has no "ticks" in it after cleaning by giving it a spin. If there is a tick, spin it on the Dremel and hold the outer race. This will often fix the probem. Acetone leaves no residue in the bearing, unlike some other solvents.

Regarding oils: Yellow Rocket Fuel is as good as any, with Smith IOS-01 and ZPI Friction Zero Super Conch also being great (but lower viscosity). The latter can be sourced from Japanese on-line sites, and are regarded highly. I typically re-lube my baitcasters every few months under heavy use.

Edited by - Strewth on 23/04/2012 09:56:37
Go to Top of Page

RonR
Ausbass Member

891 Posts

Posted - 24/04/2012 :  13:08:01  Show Profile Send RonR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Scott,

Some good info in your post. Comments I have are:

1. Re cleaning the shielded bearings widely used in reels: Contamination should not be able to get into these bearing - so (although I do clean my bearings) what is the purpose of cleaning apart from removing fine metallic particles that may or may not be washed out through the small clearance on the side shields?

2. is there really a significant improvement in performance with the high-tech reel oils? IMHO the only application where this would be apparent is on baitcasters. I don't know enough about high-tech reel lubricants to see a need to change from the low-viscosity general purpose mineral oil that I use. My Chronarchs and ABUs (1500 & 2500) cast as well as they ever did and still have the original bearings. For gears & other internals I use a Teflon-impregnated grease that is relatively water-resistant.

Ron
Go to Top of Page

Strewth
Ausbass Member

52 Posts

Posted - 24/04/2012 :  14:01:02  Show Profile Send Strewth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I clean spool bearings mostly to get grease out, as many reels come with greased spool bearings (the manufacturers rightly assume that many reels will never, or rarely, be serviced). Cleaning also gets any debris that can get washed in with water. Personally, I find casting with heavily greased spool bearings to be hard work.

I was only talking about baitcasters, as per the discussion of the original poster. I grease all bearings in spinners and all non-spool bearings in baitcasters. Many low viscosity oils will do the job for spool bearings, but some have the added advantage that they are harder to "throw off" under high revs. I prefer oils that will last for a few months, rather than a few days.

Here is a list of viscosities measured by a physicist on TT

Lube.............................Viscosity@78F (cP)

Mobil-1 0W-30 (syn)..................400
Superlube w/PTFE.....................245
Zebco Needle Oiler...................206
Quicksilver Storage Seal............ 203
Abu Silicoat Reel Oil................176


Browning Midas Gun Oil (syn)........ 140
Quicksilver PS and Trim Oil..........136
BSB Speed Bearing....................114


Red RF (hc)..........................93
PMI Paintball Gun Lube...............90
Power Steering Fluid.................90
Diawa Std Needle Oiler............ ..84
Reel-X...............................74

ATF Dextron III......................62
Shimano Std. (hc)....................60
Yellow RF (hc).......................59
3-In-1 Oil...........................40

-
Reel Butter..........................28
Quantum Hot Sauce....................25
X+1R.................................21
Diawa TDZ lube (syn).................18
Diawa/Liberto Pixy Lube (syn)........18
Whale Spit (hc)......................14
Abu Black Max .......................14

WD 40................................6
Tournament RF (hc)...................4
Friction Zero Lub (hc/syn )..........4
Rem Oil (hc).........................3

Reference: DI water..................1
Go to Top of Page

Goodoo
Ausbass Member

660 Posts

Posted - 25/04/2012 :  12:07:07  Show Profile Send Goodoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All very interesting stuff.

Given the viscosity difference between Yellow Rocket Fuel and the standard Shimano oil is 1 unit, makes you wonder why you'd bother using Yellow Rocket Fuel. Especially considering Yellow Rocket Fuel doesn't seem to last very long, while the Shimano oil does.

As for shielded bearings... I've been wondering about the point of cleaning shielded bearings. I guess dissovled grease may get past the shields, but otherwise... Apparently you can VERY CAREFULLY remove the tiny circular clip that holds the shield in place, and thus remove the shield...

Scary stuff, but probably what one should do if one wants the ultimate bearing clean.
Go to Top of Page

Strewth
Ausbass Member

52 Posts

Posted - 25/04/2012 :  13:19:49  Show Profile Send Strewth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Shimano lube with the blue cap is a perfectly good oil for most baitcaster applications. Rocket fuel came from long distance tournament casters, which probably gave it some credibility. Real data from an independent source allows an informed decision to be made.....
Go to Top of Page

Goodoo
Ausbass Member

660 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2012 :  12:09:49  Show Profile Send Goodoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also note that the Daiwa Pixy lube is a very low 18, and certainly blokes on here over the years have raved about the light lure casting abilities of Daiwa Pixies.

I've just bought some Oust Oil, which was recommended to me as very good, and it doesn't appear on the list. Wonder where it rates?

What is the unit of measurement for viscosity?

cheers


Simon
Go to Top of Page

Strewth
Ausbass Member

52 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2012 :  13:45:07  Show Profile Send Strewth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't know the viscosity of Met Oil, but from my experience it is quite low. I recall reading somewhere that its viscosity is very similar to that of Daiwa Pixy oil.

The units of viscosity in the above list are centipoise (cP). Water at 20 C has a viscosity of 1.0020 cP, with 1 cP = 0.001 Pascal.sec.
Go to Top of Page

RonR
Ausbass Member

891 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2012 :  18:58:42  Show Profile Send RonR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
G'day Simon,

No disrespect to you or Scott - who sounds like a bit of guru on lubricants - but this sounds more & more like a case of serious technology overkill. Multiple factors such as viscosity over a range of temperatures, film strength, shear stabilty and other characteristics to do with hydrodynamics determine the performance of lubricating oils.

I and mates with Chronarch, Calais and Abu reels (that I've serviced) get reliably-good cast distance and no significant bearing wear (over several years of use) with standard OEM bearings lubricated with low-viscosity mineral or semi-synthetic oils. A couple of mates who've fished with us using reels with 'high-tech' lubricants and 'low friction' bearings haven't been able to show any worthwhile advantage.

If your reels ran better before you 'improved' them, why not go back to standard bearings and the OEM oil?

Ron
Go to Top of Page

Goodoo
Ausbass Member

660 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2012 :  12:06:47  Show Profile Send Goodoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
If your reels ran better before you 'improved' them, why not go back to standard bearings and the OEM oil?


That's pretty much becoming my plan...

But what's OEM?
Go to Top of Page

RonR
Ausbass Member

891 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2012 :  12:30:11  Show Profile Send RonR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Original Equipment Manufacturer
Go to Top of Page

Strewth
Ausbass Member

52 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2012 :  18:34:06  Show Profile Send Strewth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RonR

G'day Simon,

No disrespect to you or Scott - who sounds like a bit of guru on lubricants - but this sounds more & more like a case of serious technology overkill. Multiple factors such as viscosity over a range of temperatures, film strength, shear stabilty and other characteristics to do with hydrodynamics determine the performance of lubricating oils.

I and mates with Chronarch, Calais and Abu reels (that I've serviced) get reliably-good cast distance and no significant bearing wear (over several years of use) with standard OEM bearings lubricated with low-viscosity mineral or semi-synthetic oils. A couple of mates who've fished with us using reels with 'high-tech' lubricants and 'low friction' bearings haven't been able to show any worthwhile advantage.

If your reels ran better before you 'improved' them, why not go back to standard bearings and the OEM oil?

Ron



I never said that OEM lubes or bearings are not up to speed (excuse the pun) for many applications - quite the opposite. Stock bearings perform perfectly well with a stock lube for lure weights above about 7g, provided the bearings are clean. Casting very light lures is another story altogether, as this is where high performance bearings with low viscosity lubes come into their own. Indeed, finesse baitcasters such as the Pixy, Scorpion XT1000 and Conquest 50 usually benefit from bearing upgrades and specialist lubes for throwing the really light stuff - especially for flipping and pitching.

Specialist lubes such as Rocket Fuel, Friction Zero, Smith IOS-1, Red Daiwa Oil, etc were designed for use in baitcasting reels and have physical properties that make them ideal for the job. This is not technology overkill, but they are not for everyone.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
AusBass Forums © 2000-2014 AusBass.com.au Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.14 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000